Organising Protest:

Where is our Systems Psychodynamic thinking on



Opening & panel


Wednesday 7 Sep 2022


5.00 - 7.00 pm


time start

Deb Martindale

Deb Martindale

Organisational Consultant, Sentient Co., Australia

Deb Martindale has worked extensively with emergency management and policing organisations. Deb uses a systems and organisation dynamics lens in her work. She has a particular interest in working with inter-organisation dynamics.

Deb lives and works on unceded Wurundjeri and Woi Wurrung Country, and supports the Uluru Statement from the Heart.


120 minutes

Sally Mussared

Sally Mussared

Administration Lead, NIODA, Australia

Sally is Executive: Administration Lead and Board Secretary at NIODA and is also a final-year student of the Master of Leadership and Management (Organisation Dynamics) course. Pursing her love of creating things she completed a Bachelor of Fashion Design, and then created handmade silk wedding gowns, and diversely a diploma in Ecological agriculture living on a working farm on the whilst project managing for the local Landcare group. Sally has held positions on a number of boards including school, community groups and the catchment management authority. 

Sally lives and works between unceded Wurundjuri and Wadawurrung Country, north-west of Melbourne. 

Kenwyn Smith

Kenwyn Smith

Scholar-practitioner, Leadership, USA

Dr Kenwyn Smith, a scholar-practitioner, is Professor of Organizational Behaviour at the University of Pennsylvania. In his educational role, he is focused on the leadership-followership phenomenon, relationships within and among groups, organisational politics, and change management. During his years at Penn he has directed the Center for Workplace Studies, functioned as Faculty Master of Ware College House, and created Penn’s Graduate Program in Nonprofit Leadership.

Dr Smith, an Australian citizen, has conducted research in a wide range of organisations and communities: from prisons to schools, from businesses to health care institutions, from state enterprises to social entrepreneurial activities, from oppressed black townships in South Africa to agencies creating sustainable livelihoods in rural India, from pharmaceuticals in Belgium to financial services in urban America, from the World Bank to a community in Philadelphia wrestling with the anguish of people living with HIV/AIDS.

Kenwyn has helped found a number of volunteer-based, nonprofit organizations, has worked on six continents, and has been involved in educating thousands of students from over 100 countries, both at U Penn and around the world.

Seth Thomasson

Seth Thomasson

Academic Staff, NIODA, Australia

Seth Thomasson is an academic staff member at NIODA and is the Manager of P&C Digital Services at AGL.

Seth has 15 years experience working across the Human Resources function in the public and private sectors in competency system design, industrial relations and management.

Seth has also worked as a librarian for the State Library of Victoria and prior to that as an aid worker for the World Food Programme.

Learning to listen: the challenge of the Uluru statement from the heart

During COVID lockdown late in 2020, Deb Martindale, Sally Mussared, Kenwyn Smith and Seth Thomasson were motivated by the Uluru Statement from the Heart to respond to the government’s interim report. This led to the consideration that perhaps our role as ‘white fellas’ in the Yoorrook (Victorian Truth Telling Commission) was to actively listen. Regular reflection sessions have led to us being moved by what we have heard in the public hearings from Victorian First People Elders whose experiences illustrate many of the key impacts of colonisation still felt today, including Jack Charles, Uncle Johnny Lovett, Aunty Fay Carter, Aunty Alma Thorpe, Uncle Larry Walsh and Isobel Paipadjerook Morphy-Walsh, Uncle Kevin Coombs and Uncle Colin Walker. The impacts of our listening are developing, and we encourage you to listen to the Uluru Statement from the Heart to consider your role in this social movement.


Moderated by Dr Judy Kent








Session schedule


Welcome to country – Rev Ray Minnicon


Welcome to the symposium – Professor Susan Long


Introduction to the panel – Dr Judy Kent


Panel presentation – Deb Martindale, Sally Mussared, Kenwyn Smith, Seth Thomasson


Small group discussions






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Next panel

The following are presenting at the next panel at the symposium

Kat Hamilton


Esther Salomon


Simon Western


Learning with Activists

Kat Hamilton – Force of Nature, Esther Salomon – Animal Think Tank and Simon Western – Eco-leadership Institute, will share what brought them into activism, the purpose of their organisation and social movement, and the effects of their activism.

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